So I'm sitting here, surfin' the 'Net, listening to Christmas carols play (Johnny Mathis FTW!) and it occurred to me...
I'm not a Christian. Although I know good people who are, I find little to actually like in that religion. I'm not aggressively anti-Christian, but I will explain my views and reasoning for them (self-contradictory, hate-filled, harmful religion) to anyone who expresses interest,
Despite that, I love Christmas. I love Christmas music. I answer the phone in December with "Merry Christmas!". I buy into the whole holiday thing, and it actually irritates me when people try to force "Happy [generic] Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."
So am I a hypocrite? I don't think so, because I'm either (1) showing tolerance for other worldviews, or (2) cynically exploiting other, lesser religions as an excuse for a celebration.
What do you guys think? How do you deal with the Holiday Season?
Am I a hypocrite?
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Am I a hypocrite?
MartinHarper wrote:Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.
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JonSetanta
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Nope. Christmas is called "The Holidays" and anyone from Jews to Buddhists to Muslims celebrate it merely as an opportunity to exchange gifts and/or spend time with family in the cold season.
It's not an exclusion and certainly not forced upon you... unless you live deep within the Bible Belt, in which case you're probably beaten and shunned by family if you refuse Christian events or baptism but not necessarily in that order.
My Irish Catholic mother forces us to go to a church on every Easter (not one church, not a community church, but pretty much any non-Baptist church nearby), attend funerals when relatives die, and attend christenings, but that's about the extent of any religious events I ever do.
It's not an exclusion and certainly not forced upon you... unless you live deep within the Bible Belt, in which case you're probably beaten and shunned by family if you refuse Christian events or baptism but not necessarily in that order.
My Irish Catholic mother forces us to go to a church on every Easter (not one church, not a community church, but pretty much any non-Baptist church nearby), attend funerals when relatives die, and attend christenings, but that's about the extent of any religious events I ever do.
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RiotGearEpsilon
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I wrote this a while back before I started going back to church. In our house, Christmas is really more of a traditional holiday than a religious one (my mother grew up in a Roman-Catholic-inspired Italian family). Nothing in it has changed much.
To answer your question, though, Talisman - No. You're not a hypocrite. Love whatever holiday inspires you.
On Christ's Birthday
When I was a little girl, we used to have this little plastic nativity set that we stuck on a cake so we could sing happy birthday to baby Jesus. As I got older, I found out that maybe Jesus wasn't born in December (I was taught April). Honestly, though... It didn't bother me.
As a child who never had a birthday party on her birthday because it was during summer vacation when her classmates were away, I wasn't really obsessed with celebrating birthdays on the specific day - or even the specific month. I was grateful for the acknowledgement. Someone as forgiving as Jesus probably wouldn't get that upset by it either - especially considering the number of calendar changes in the last 2000 years.
On Gift Giving
Santa Claus is a fat man in a red suit. The Three Wise Men are three ethnically different guys who supposedly rode on camels to find Jesus and bring him gifts fitting a king (anyone smelled myrrh lately?). The point isn't who you give the gift to, it's that you are capable of giving... And it really doesn't matter what - you can give your time, your money, your food, your effort... If the point of celebrating Thanksgiving is just being grateful, then the point of Christmas is showing generosity towards others. It's sad that there are those who abuse this generosity, but that doesn't make your heart and your intentions any less valuable.
Personally, I love giving gifts of any kind I can. I spend Christmas morning watching the people around me light up because they got something cool or had someone do something nice for them. I take pride in feeding and serving those people who come to our house because they have no family or place to be for the holidays. Giving of yourself to someone else exemplifies those things that Christ supposedly preached - kindness, charity, and generosity.
On Other Aspects of Christmas
There are lots of people who like to go to places like Hawaii for Christmas - and I think that's cool. But Christmas to me will always be about being with family and friends in the most comfortable place in the world - home. Decorating the tree together, fixing the thirty bazillion strings of Christmas lights, debating on where to hang the wreath, tickling my brother and sister until they let me put santa hats on them, helping my mom make candy and cookies to bring to our neighbors... Christmas is all about home.
Sharing... This kind of goes along with gift giving, but when I think about it, I think about my hindu roommate from college who came over for Christmas because she didn't have anywhere else to go. We didn't have a lot of money, but Mom conjured up a CD player and made her a quilt for her bed, as well as some other little silly things like a stocking and stuff to go in it. Leena spent the morning crying because she'd never experienced anything like it and was amazed to be so readily accepted by people who really didn't know her. I spent the morning crying because I was grateful for the chance to share with her. I was generally a wreck that Christmas - but in a good way.
On the Trappings of Christmas
One of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen was my living room at two in the morning. We had decorated the house with the trees and nativity scenes and miniature villages, and everything you could imagine. That night, Mom asked me to go downstairs to make sure all the lights were all turned off... I sat on the stairs looking at this wonderland of lights that transformed everything familiar into some kind of fairy land. I could imagine the toymaker in the miniature toy shop actually making toys; I could see a small star illuminating a baby in a stable; I could watch the lights on the tree flashing to a song that no one could hear. It was gorgeous.
I love the music. I discovered Christmas caroling at church when I was about eight years old, and I don't think I've stopped singing. The haunting lilt of songs like "What Child is This," "The Coventry Carol," and "We Three Kings" add to my reverence for the season. Modern Christmas carols are no less impressive. "Christmas Time," "Christmas Eve-Sarajevo," and "All I Want For Christmas is You" are just as badass.
I live in Washington, the Evergreen State, and despite the fact that the trees that surround my apartment have that nice evergreen smell that accompanies every real christmas tree I've ever had, nothing compares with the smell of Christmas itself. Trees, candles, cinnamon and apples (from the spiced cider), snow, oranges... There's so much that it's become an indescribable aura forever associated in my mind with December.
In Conclusion
Christmas for me isn't the only time when I'm nice. It's not the only time when there are cool lights on in my house at night, but it is the only time when everything I've mentioned comes together.
I could go on forever about my favorite holiday, but what it really boils down to is this: Christmas is whatever you want to make of it. When it comes right down to it, I would rather make it into something to look forward to and into something that brings me so much joy it makes me cry. But if Christmas can't be that way for you, then don't make yourself miserable by trying to follow along with everyone else.
When I was a little girl, we used to have this little plastic nativity set that we stuck on a cake so we could sing happy birthday to baby Jesus. As I got older, I found out that maybe Jesus wasn't born in December (I was taught April). Honestly, though... It didn't bother me.
As a child who never had a birthday party on her birthday because it was during summer vacation when her classmates were away, I wasn't really obsessed with celebrating birthdays on the specific day - or even the specific month. I was grateful for the acknowledgement. Someone as forgiving as Jesus probably wouldn't get that upset by it either - especially considering the number of calendar changes in the last 2000 years.
On Gift Giving
Santa Claus is a fat man in a red suit. The Three Wise Men are three ethnically different guys who supposedly rode on camels to find Jesus and bring him gifts fitting a king (anyone smelled myrrh lately?). The point isn't who you give the gift to, it's that you are capable of giving... And it really doesn't matter what - you can give your time, your money, your food, your effort... If the point of celebrating Thanksgiving is just being grateful, then the point of Christmas is showing generosity towards others. It's sad that there are those who abuse this generosity, but that doesn't make your heart and your intentions any less valuable.
Personally, I love giving gifts of any kind I can. I spend Christmas morning watching the people around me light up because they got something cool or had someone do something nice for them. I take pride in feeding and serving those people who come to our house because they have no family or place to be for the holidays. Giving of yourself to someone else exemplifies those things that Christ supposedly preached - kindness, charity, and generosity.
On Other Aspects of Christmas
There are lots of people who like to go to places like Hawaii for Christmas - and I think that's cool. But Christmas to me will always be about being with family and friends in the most comfortable place in the world - home. Decorating the tree together, fixing the thirty bazillion strings of Christmas lights, debating on where to hang the wreath, tickling my brother and sister until they let me put santa hats on them, helping my mom make candy and cookies to bring to our neighbors... Christmas is all about home.
Sharing... This kind of goes along with gift giving, but when I think about it, I think about my hindu roommate from college who came over for Christmas because she didn't have anywhere else to go. We didn't have a lot of money, but Mom conjured up a CD player and made her a quilt for her bed, as well as some other little silly things like a stocking and stuff to go in it. Leena spent the morning crying because she'd never experienced anything like it and was amazed to be so readily accepted by people who really didn't know her. I spent the morning crying because I was grateful for the chance to share with her. I was generally a wreck that Christmas - but in a good way.
On the Trappings of Christmas
One of the most beautiful sights I've ever seen was my living room at two in the morning. We had decorated the house with the trees and nativity scenes and miniature villages, and everything you could imagine. That night, Mom asked me to go downstairs to make sure all the lights were all turned off... I sat on the stairs looking at this wonderland of lights that transformed everything familiar into some kind of fairy land. I could imagine the toymaker in the miniature toy shop actually making toys; I could see a small star illuminating a baby in a stable; I could watch the lights on the tree flashing to a song that no one could hear. It was gorgeous.
I love the music. I discovered Christmas caroling at church when I was about eight years old, and I don't think I've stopped singing. The haunting lilt of songs like "What Child is This," "The Coventry Carol," and "We Three Kings" add to my reverence for the season. Modern Christmas carols are no less impressive. "Christmas Time," "Christmas Eve-Sarajevo," and "All I Want For Christmas is You" are just as badass.
I live in Washington, the Evergreen State, and despite the fact that the trees that surround my apartment have that nice evergreen smell that accompanies every real christmas tree I've ever had, nothing compares with the smell of Christmas itself. Trees, candles, cinnamon and apples (from the spiced cider), snow, oranges... There's so much that it's become an indescribable aura forever associated in my mind with December.
In Conclusion
Christmas for me isn't the only time when I'm nice. It's not the only time when there are cool lights on in my house at night, but it is the only time when everything I've mentioned comes together.
I could go on forever about my favorite holiday, but what it really boils down to is this: Christmas is whatever you want to make of it. When it comes right down to it, I would rather make it into something to look forward to and into something that brings me so much joy it makes me cry. But if Christmas can't be that way for you, then don't make yourself miserable by trying to follow along with everyone else.
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Username17
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The Catholic Church actively opposes cogent AIDS policy in Africa. The Mormon church gave tens of millions of dollars towards the oppression of gays and the enslavement of women this year - 25 million dollars towards Proposition 8 in California alone.
People who give money and/or time to these large Christian churches are supporting terrorism. Seriously.
But let's be real here: the Solstice Tree was danced around long before the first stories were told about Jesus Christ (about a generation or two after he supposedly lived, which is mighty convenient). The mid-winter feast was an ancient tradition by the time the Catholic Church decided retroactively that it was the birthday of their mythical founder. There's no evidence that Jesus Christ was a man, let alone the son of a god, and his nominal birthday is just a crude attempt to steal a holiday. Celebrating the holiday in a secular fashion is your right. Christians are the thieves here, not you.
And if they make some cool music to go with the holidays, fine. You can take that too. Remember that it's everyone's holiday, and that those assholes are trying to steal it for themselves. Taking control of the songs and stories that they are inserting into the folk record to try to take our holidays is fair play.
-Username17
People who give money and/or time to these large Christian churches are supporting terrorism. Seriously.
But let's be real here: the Solstice Tree was danced around long before the first stories were told about Jesus Christ (about a generation or two after he supposedly lived, which is mighty convenient). The mid-winter feast was an ancient tradition by the time the Catholic Church decided retroactively that it was the birthday of their mythical founder. There's no evidence that Jesus Christ was a man, let alone the son of a god, and his nominal birthday is just a crude attempt to steal a holiday. Celebrating the holiday in a secular fashion is your right. Christians are the thieves here, not you.
And if they make some cool music to go with the holidays, fine. You can take that too. Remember that it's everyone's holiday, and that those assholes are trying to steal it for themselves. Taking control of the songs and stories that they are inserting into the folk record to try to take our holidays is fair play.
-Username17
I'm sort partial to Gary Hoey's You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch, myself.FrankTrollman wrote: ...
And if they make some cool music to go with the holidays, fine. You can take that too. Remember that it's everyone's holiday, and that those assholes are trying to steal it for themselves.
...
-Username17
But, really, I like Christmas, mostly for the chance to see my unbelievably-cool family all in one place.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
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PhoneLobster
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Just remember. Real Christians hate everything you recognise as Christmas. Hell some of the early American Christians actually banned it.
Santa, gifts, all the commercialism, paganism, and weird ass traditions and all that shit, they hate it. They believe the Christ has been removed from the Christmas and it has been high jacked by corporations and secular society.
And they are right.
That makes them feel bad, but for you that should be nothing but pure comfort.
Santa, gifts, all the commercialism, paganism, and weird ass traditions and all that shit, they hate it. They believe the Christ has been removed from the Christmas and it has been high jacked by corporations and secular society.
And they are right.
That makes them feel bad, but for you that should be nothing but pure comfort.
Christmas, whatever the religious overtones, is mostly just a good idea. I'm an atheist and I celebrate Christmas.
People get together and celebrate each other. There is pretty visual displays and cheerful music. It should happen more often.
My biggest gripe with Christians regarding Christmas has always been that Christmas is the biggest holiday for them. Anyone who has examined their purported beliefs would question why that is.
People get together and celebrate each other. There is pretty visual displays and cheerful music. It should happen more often.
My biggest gripe with Christians regarding Christmas has always been that Christmas is the biggest holiday for them. Anyone who has examined their purported beliefs would question why that is.
Re: Am I a hypocrite?
No, you are not a hypocrite but...
Do you listen to a lot of right wing radio or something? How has the expression Happy Holidays become demonized? I used it a lot when I worked at a local gas station, not because I was worried that someone in my small farming community might seriously celebrate kwanza or something, but because I had already said Merry Christmas at least eight hundred times that morning and needed to change it up a bit. I am pretty sure that's actually how that phrase came into being.Talisman wrote: Despite that, I love Christmas. I love Christmas music. I answer the phone in December with "Merry Christmas!". I buy into the whole holiday thing, and it actually irritates me when people try to force "Happy [generic] Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas."
Re: Am I a hypocrite?
Well, if by "a lot" you mean "zero," then yes.shau wrote:Do you listen to a lot of right wing radio or something? How has the expression Happy Holidays become demonized?
I dunno...it seems like a couple of years ago there was a lot of "Happy Holidays" with generic snowflake/snowman scenes, and a lot less "Merry Christmas" with Santa and stuff.
Actually, I don't know why that bothers me. I've got no realy problem with Happy Holidays...it's just one of those quirks that makes me so lovable.
MartinHarper wrote:Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.
Hypocrite? Hell no, Christmas got secularized a lotta time ago. But - brainwashed? Some could say "a little bit": the reason why it got secularized's people wanting the big profit, nothing more. So, I'd just like the (good) things that happen on Christmas to happen outside it and without mention of [insert deity here]. Oh, yeah: setting a date to gift people you already know seems BS - remember, it's rumored to have started existing due to charity, not mutual congratulation.
Hans Freyer, s.b.u.h. wrote:A manly, a bold tone prevails in history. He who has the grip has the booty.
Huston Smith wrote:Life gives us no view of the whole. We see only snatches here and there, (...)
brotherfrancis75 wrote:Perhaps you imagine that Ayn Rand is our friend? And the Mont Pelerin Society? No, those are but the more subtle versions of the Bolshevik Communist Revolution you imagine you reject. (...) FOX NEWS IS ALSO COMMUNIST!
LDSChristian wrote:True. I do wonder which is worse: killing so many people like Hitler did or denying Christ 3 times like Peter did.
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Draco_Argentum
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Seems I've been beaten to the Christmas has zero to do with Christianity line. Its 100% true though, wtf has Santa got to do with Jesus? Or the tree? Nothing at all. Christmas was Christianity trying to piggy back on older religions for conversion purposes. Its since been counter co-opted by people who want to get rich.
Personally I hate Christmas just like every other annual gift day.
Personally I hate Christmas just like every other annual gift day.
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Heath Robinson
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An opinion shared by many people the world over. Petty white collar crime certainly increases around the times of holidays where friends and family have expectations of you. If we accept that petty white collar crime is some kind of indicator of general levels of discontent, then Christmas clearly stresses people out.Draco_Argentum wrote:Personally I hate Christmas just like every other annual gift day.
Face it. Today will be as bad a day as any other.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Increases stress? Hell yeah it does. Personally, though, I enjoy it enough to put up with the stress. The fact that I only give gifts to 7 people might help...and for 5 of them, it's one gift apiece.
Oh, and welcome back to the 'net, Count.
Heck, I'd consider that a perfectly appropriate response. I have a friend who uses "Merry Solstice," and gives people "solstice presents."Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:I'm considering returning every "Merry Christmas" I receive with a hearty "Io Saturnalia".
Oh, and welcome back to the 'net, Count.
MartinHarper wrote:Babies are difficult to acquire in comparison to other sources of nutrition.
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SunTzuWarmaster
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